Has it been on your mind?
“If I put on some muscle, will women find me more attractive?”
“How much do women really care for a man’s physique?”
And if you’ve already got some muscle on you…
“Is this making a difference to women?”
“Why do women just want me for sex and not a relationship?”
Yeah, that second one’s a real problem.
Something interesting happens when you get jacked enough – roughly 23-25 on this chart, assuming you’re <15% bodyfat. But we’ll get to that.
Women don’t just want a man for his body. It’s only one fundamental of 3. Your social status, lifestyle, and overall environment matter very much. As do your psychological world and your individual connection with a woman.
But let’s focus on your physique for now, and how the amount of muscle on it affects how women see you.
We’ll be using the BMI chart as a model here. BMI isn’t entirely accurate, as it doesn’t account for body composition. So assume this is you at 10-15% body fat. If you have more fat than that, take that weight out of the equation.
You’re unlikely to get a woman AT ALL if you’re this underweight. Maybe one would settle for you if your psychology and positioning are on point, but do you just want to be SETTLED for?
When I was here, I’d sometimes talk to girls, run a bit of game, get flirty, but get no results. Absolutely 0. Girls would find me sweet and nice. They’d be comfortable around me in a purely platonic context. Our conversations would be great. But their primal sexual attraction to me just wasn’t there.
I could only be friends with a girl, nothing more. And we genuinely enjoyed each other’s company. We’d talk about our crushes, share our favourite music and TV shows, and make all sorts of friendly chitchat. Even back then, I wouldn’t befriend girls I was interested in, so I was no Tony Friendzoni.
Despite having my female friends… Not feeling like a sexual being to girls was a bummer for my horny, sexually/romantically frustrated teenage self, but then something cool happened. I got a gym membership.
And still no real results with the ladies.
Now that I’d put a bit of muscle on, girls started treating me like a GUY, not just like a fellow (androgynous) human.
They started to get uneasy about engaging in platonic “girl talk” with me. Friendly teasing and chitchat between us diminished, and our interactions got more cordial.
While I’d befriended both guys and girls when I was skinnier, I started to prefer my male friendships by A LOT after I gained that muscle. I stopped seeing the point of having close female friends.
GUYS started treating me like a guy too. When I was skinny, I was a cute, androgynous buddy to them too; they’d treat me like a kid compared to them as the girls also would. Then with this newfound muscle, a whole new world of BRO opened up to me. Guys had real respect for me for once, I was starting to naturally dominate other guys in social interactions for once (a new feeling for me! Previously, I’d never held my own while socially “sparring” with other guys!), and we’d very naturally vibe and engage in “guy talk”.
Oh, the testosterone.
With this physique, a girl would flirt with me once in a while – ex. a cute one (who went to another school) deliberately touched her leg to mine when we were sitting next to each other at a thing. Though I was too insecure with myself to make a real move on her past asking for a pen. Another attractive and sweet girl got really warm with me and would give me THE EYES when we’d talk. Though again, I didn’t pursue her because I was insecure about myself and was very much in “survival mode” at the time.
The girls who were receptive to me were more on the “cute” spectrum than the “hot” one. The HOT girls still wouldn’t be that receptive with me.
If your physique is at this stage, women will likely find you attractive for dating, in terms of provisioning and usually an emotional connection, not really for pure sex. I’ll explain later as to why.
I started to have an actual dating life here. My Tinder matches got more receptive to me. I smelled more sexuality in the air.
I felt above the “cute” girls and not really turned on by them, though it was easy to get them. I wouldn’t consider them for a relationship, only sex (if I was reeeeally horny).
I still wanted the “hot” girls, but thanks to my psychological issues, I had a really hard time vibing with ANYONE. And my neediness would turn people off.
Take away the neediness however, and I could do decently.
This stage is where girls start to categorize you as “potential hookup” material. You’re still in the “potential relationship” category if you’re sweet/innocent enough, but not so much if you’re hardened.
What blew me away here was – GIRLS seemed to be the ones who just wanted to fuck and chuck guys, contrary to the “girls only want commitment” mentality I used to have. When my physique was here, I finally had my first kiss with a girl (and she was down to sleep with me, but my awkward ass didn’t jump on it), and I later lost my virginity to another girl, then slept with yet another girl a week later.
My dating life was at its most eventful when I was this big (I’m back at 23 currently because a period of a sub-optimal diet and drugs wrecked my biochemistry, but I’m getting back to 24-25).
I’d get HUNDREDS of matches on Tinder while being selective. I’d have the occasional date, lay, or drunken makeout sesh with a girl. I slept with all my closer female friends who weren’t in relationships.
I even had the occasional girl (plus sometimes a guy) APPROACH ME tryna get a piece of my squat booty.
And I was barely trying, barely gaming.
Of course, my psychological issues and inexperienced mindset sunk things with a lot of girls. So I didn’t make the absolute most of my physique.
For example, going on a date with a girl who just wanted “fun”, but my dumb ass thought she literally just wanted a date and potentially a relationship like I did.
Completely missing signals when certain girls I WAS ATTRACTED TO gave me hungry eyes or got horny around me. I still internally scream about these missed opportunities.
What’s funny is – girls I’d pursue for a potential relationship would be attracted to me but SHUT DOWN once I’d make a move. This was because I was going for the wrong girls for the wrong reasons. And those girls would unconsciously pick up on the flaws and dissociations in my energy/psychological world, and not want to reflect my insecurities. My physique may have been JACKED AF BRO, but my self-perception was still unflattering.
I didn’t feel I could have a real relationship with a “hotter” girl, BUUUT THAT’S EXACTLY THE TYPE OF GIRL I SHOULD HAVE GONE FOR.
If your physique is this muscled, you’re squarely in the “potential hookup only” category for decently attractive girls, as I learned the hard way. Only girls with VERY high self-esteem, confidence, and beauty will see you as “potential relationship” material.
Every other girl won’t risk it. On a primal level, she finds you hot, but she knows you won’t stick around if you were to fuck. After all, she’s far from your only option. And girls want BOTH desire/sexuality AND comfort/commitment from a guy.
I haven’t personally been this big (yet?), but from what I’ve seen in other guys…
It’s a more intense version of being 24-25.
Here, you barely have to dance or game to get women. THEY COME TO YOU, and they’re all HOT.
May sound like the dream to ya, but it may not be, because
1. Unless you’re a guy with great muscle-building genetics who eats a fuckton of food every day, you likely won’t get here without taking performance enhancing drugs.
2. You’ll have a tough time finding a real relationship with a girl that extends beyond preselection. Though if you love hookups, you’ll be living the dream.
If you’re this big but you want something real with a girl, you have to lean heavily into your psychology. Take your body out of the equation, and all the girls who only want you for it. But that’s a topic for another day.
Cool story bro, but what’s the logic here?
Testosterone, that’s what.
It and your muscle mass operate in a positive feedback loop.
The more testosterone you have > The more muscle your body can build > The more testosterone it needs to produce to maintain that muscle mass > The more muscle mass can come your way
Working out gives you an ACUTE increase in testosterone, but lean muscle mass gives you a higher BASELINE level of it.
This is very much “pheromonal game”, a way to influence women’s subconscious attraction triggers without much overt game. Put some muscle on, and you’ll have an easier time “affording” hotter women without having to put much behavioral game in.
Also, safety. We may live in a civil society with little day-to-day possibility of uncontrolled violence (unless you’re in certain spheres), but women’s primal attraction to men who could defend them and their children against attackers ain’t going anywhere.
ONE MORE THING.
Men tend to overestimate the amount of muscle that women find attractive.
Almost NO woman finds a bulky “bodybuilder” sort of look attractive.
Women’s ideal male body type is an ATHLETIC one, not a BULKY one. She doesn’t just want you to be big. She unconsciously wants you to be able to FIGHT to protect her, and too much muscle is actually DETRIMENTAL to your physical condition and your fighting ability, which will turn her off.
So the “bodybuilder” look is actually UNATTRACTIVE to the primal part of her brain.
And to the higher-consciousness, social, humane side of her brain, she wouldn’t want a guy whose life revolves around ONLY the gym and his muscle mass, which is a must if you want to be this big. She wants you to be more interesting, less predictable than that.
Except if she’s in one demographic of woman – fitchicks OBSESSED with fitness and muscle.
Look at the women who date professional bodybuilders and strength athletes. They’re usually packed with muscle and obsessed with the gym themselves (though still feminine). And that’s great! These couples are often genuinely happy together, which is what matters in the end!
Exceptions to the BMI rule
Oh balls, this is a long newsletter. As I’m writing this, I’m considering making it a blog post instead. But naw, let’s keep it as a newsletter. I bet you’re enjoying it.
Anyhoo, ONE MORE thing, then one final subtopic I want to rant about, then you can get back to whatever you’re doing, whether it’s work, watching cat videos, patting an actual cat, commuting, cuddling someone cute, or laying in bed at 1 AM wishing you had someone cute to cuddle.
The scale I just enlightened you about doesn’t apply to everyone. If you’re 5’3″ish to 6’5″ish, this’ll apply to 80-90% of you, with less returns between 5’3″-5’6″. (Sadly for some men, height does matter to women)
Guys with a smaller bone structure may see higher BMI’s returns at lower weights. This is because more of their bodyweight will be muscle compared to other tissues, masculinizing their biochemistry. (ex. you can be a lean 23 on the BMI chart but see some results of being 25 if you have a smaller-than-average physical frame for a guy)
And guys with HUGE physical frames (ex. this gent, or any guy at any height with an endomorph build who’s gotten lean) don’t have to worry so much about getting TOO big for women’s comfort, or about being too small to trigger their primal attraction. In fact, they can throw out the BMI scale entirely. No matter how much muscle they have (or not), they’re gonna be huge. Their huge frame is a masculine physical trait regardless of what’s on it (unless they’re all fat and no muscle). Of course, they still need testosterone flowing through their veins to be attractive, but they don’t have to work so hard for their muscle mass.
The guys with average to below-average-sized bone structures are the ones who benefit most from gaining this muscle.
Being able to “afford” hotter women is very much a pheromonal game.
Women whose biochemistry is extremely feminine will naturally select men whose biochemistry is extremely masculine. And putting on muscle mass is the most straightforward way to masculinize your biochemistry.
Let’s summarize how different levels of muscle mass affect women’s perception of you:
No muscle (<18): Sexual dud. Amazing close friend material if your personality’s on point. Not sex material or relationship material at all, except to the most unattractive women, and to decently attractive women who only want to settle (harshly).
A bit of muscle but nothing special (19-21): Sexual but safe. Decently attractive women will see you as dating/LTR material, often friend material (still with respect to you as a sexual being!), but you won’t be hookup/relationship material except to unattractive women. You’re still too sexually depolarized to attract HOT women.
More than a bit of muscle, still nothing special (22-23): Sexual and mildly intimidating. Decently attractive women will want to hook up with you as well as date you, but the hottest ones are still out of your reach, except if one wants to settle into an LTR with you. You’ll likely only be friend material in a social circle context, not in a one-on-one context (you’re too sexually polarized to be her girlfriend!)
Jacked but not too huge (24-25): Sexual and intimidating. Girls will hit on you once in a while, and show plenty of signs of attraction. Make a female friend who isn’t happy with another guy, and she’ll secretly want to sleep with you. Decently attractive girls will just want to fuck you, not to date you. Only girls who are highly feminine and attractive will want to date you (and not just to settle! It’s because she actually likes you!) Less feminine/attractive girls won’t risk being with you, even if they find you attractive.
A muscular powerhouse (26-27): Sexual and HIGHLY intimidating. Same effects as the previous stage, except more girls will objectify you purely for your physique. These tend to be girls who are objectified for their own looks.
Fitness FREAK (28+): Sexual but unappealing to most demographics of women. Most likely to get with other fitness-obsessed women, though exceptions do exist, and we’ve already gone over that.
For most guys, a lean BMI of 23-26 is the sweet spot for female attraction. Any less, and you won’t be biochemically sexual enough to them. Any more, and you’ll ONLY be the muscle to them.
I’m not a fitness coach, though I do know my shit about muscle and athleticism.
I’m a dating coach, obviously.
I know that while a good physique is a game-changer with the ladies, YOU WON’T capitalize on your other opportunities UNLESS you optimize the rest of yourself.
(I learned this the hard way, and I still hate that I missed certain girl-getting opportunities in my past)
You however, don’t have to learn the hard way.
GET HELLA JACKED BRO,