Should you befriend women?

I got into a thought-provoking conversation with Pat Stedman and YoyloPUA on the bird app a short while back.

It’s right here.

The crux of it was Pat’s “planting trees” strategy – friendzoning women instead of jumping on getting with them. This gives you social proof as a cool, non-needy guy, and access to said girl’s network of other girls. It’s a smart move.

And it’s worked for Pat.

Not so much for me or YoyloPUA. We’re introverts. Pat’s an extrovert. Which brings up one of my favorite things about dating advice – how universally effective much of it ISN’T.

Friendzoning women may or may not work for you, depending on your stage of life and individual personality.

Say you’re in college, even high school, maybe a year or two past college-age, where social circle and social proof are king. Girls in this stage of life care about who you know before they care about who you are. If you’re this young a guy, having a mixed-sex social circle is key for having access to potential female options. “Friendzoning” girls when you’re young can make or break the quality of your social life and dating life.

As you get older than college-age, things slowly change. People know their individual personalities better. People pair off, and often for life (or at least years to a decade). The gals start valuing who you ARE more and more, and who you KNOW, less and less. Girls who are maturing or matured, they’ll be tolerating your potential less, and choose you based more on who you ALREADY ARE to each other.

Personally, Pat’s “friendzone” strategy has not historically worked for me, even if I could pull it off a few times in college. And even back then, these were girls I was friendzoning by proxy, from my guy friends who’d friendzoned them first. As for the girls I DID personally friendzone upon meeting them and have one-on-one friendships with, let’s just say that that friendzoning happened AFTER the sexy stuff (and before more of it).

Of all the girls I had one-on-one friendships with during the height of my social life, that weren’t a simple product of us being in the same social circles, only ONE was a girl I didn’t date or hook up with at some point.

I’m a tense, type A, introverted guy. I’m also in great shape, in touch with my sexual energy, and very good at game.

I have what you may call a “high-quality problem”.

Girls don’t want to be my friend.

Every time I try befriending a girl, she quickly puts me in the “potential date/bang” category. She either waits for me to ask her out or take her, or vibes a bit then pulls back out of respect for the guy she’s already with.

(doesn’t mean I can’t maintain casual friendly connections with them though, especially if they’re already taken)

Attractive, non-needy, EXTROVERTED men have this same problem, except in a different form. The girls who are attracted to this kind of guy can TOLERATE being in the friendzone for the sake of access to him, and through him, they may meet a man who’s a better fit for them than he is.

That’s why an extroverted social leader such as Pat has done well with this kind of social circle game, but more introverted, more “misfit” guys like myself are best off dating outside their social circle, relying on directness more than on social positioning to git gurls.

So when you’re taking someone’s dating advice, account for your individual personalities. A guy’s advice may work for HIM and for guys with similar strengths, but does it work for you?

There is more than one way to be good with women. Different women prioritize different things in deciding which men they want to be with.

I know some guys whose primary girl-getting method is extroverted in nature – they go out, act friendly, build up social proof, and lead women by being social leaders (which of course, attracts them). Guys like this will do great “planting trees”.

For other guys, it’s online dating. They’re good at presenting themselves in photos, and creating an “online resume” that gets the ladies seeing them and feeling intrigued (this was how I’d get most of my dates in the first few years of my dating life)

Other guys swear by daygame. They like to meet women organically without relying on social circle/social proof. Some other guys go the nightgame route and get their girls by adding value to the club/bar world.

Your values and current life goals matter immensely too. Are you in the market for a deep and serious relationship, for casual dates or plates to spin, or for one night stands? You will attract girls who are in the market for those same things, despite how much you and they may be lying to yourselves about what you truly want.

But that last bit is an email in itself.

Let’s leave you with this for now:

You will get girls more easily when you play to your individual strengths, rather than trying to copy another guy’s game.

I used to attempt the “extroverted social leader” persona way back in the day because I had a buddy who made it work for him, who’d be the “alpha connector” of our social network and I FLOPPED. I tried getting the girls who were in the market for him, and I FLOPPED. People weren’t enthusiastic about the parties I’d attempt to host like he did, and the few times I did pull off a party-like social gathering at my place, only one of those times didn’t end up a quick flop.

Yet when I leaned into my capacity for other forms of leadership, I got strong connections with girls, and some dates, and some sex out of it 😉 I learned to get girls through my ability to hold tension and be polarizing, through being controversial rather than popular.

Some of you gentlemen will do well with women taking the “popular” route. Others will do well taking the “controversial” route. There are many many variables in WHICH women you’ll be attractive to and liked by…

And remember that a woman liking you isn’t the same thing as her being attracted to you 😉

You may not be fully aware of what’ll make you UNIVERSALLY attractive to women, and of what’ll make you SUBJECTIVELY attractive to women. Both of these matter.

That’s why I’m here to coach you.

I’ve gotten my dates doing approaches, through friends, in the nightlife, and from the Internets. I know how to be successful in all those domains (even if some are more aligned with me than others)

It’s time for YOU to discover YOUR individual strengths now. Rather than feel like you have to force yourself into an archetype that isn’t YOU to get women.

Time to stop flopping.

Time to start fucking.

See me when you’re ready to have some fun. Effortlessly. Naturally. Exponentially.

– Ben


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